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Top-Airflow version?
#1
Since the Procores are so prone to leaking, would there be a way to convert them to Top-Airflow, or maybe develop a top-airflow version of it?
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#2
(08-24-2018, 02:15 AM)tailland Wrote:  Since the Procores are so prone to leaking, would there be a way to convert them to Top-Airflow, or maybe develop a top-airflow version of it?

Where does your ProCore tank leak?
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#3
(08-24-2018, 08:47 PM)Ippolit Wrote:  
(08-24-2018, 02:15 AM)tailland Wrote:  Since the Procores are so prone to leaking, would there be a way to convert them to Top-Airflow, or maybe develop a top-airflow version of it?

Where does your ProCore tank leak?
I have 4 Procores. Two Procore X that came with my Espion mods, one Aries that came with the Cuboid Pro, and I've bought a seperate Procore Motor for experimenting and modding. So far I have used only two of them, since they're all interchangable. Those two leak in the same way.

As expected due to the design of the bottom part, the juice makes its way from under the coil into the little pit in the middle of the bottom base, and if it gets too much, it travels towards the sides and falls down into the crevice between the outer wall and the airflow ring. That's why the leaking is invisible until you unscrew the atomizer from the base.

The real problem I have is, that I can't tell what the real source of the problem is. There are 2 possibilities, as I see it.

1) The white plastic insert in the top fill part doesn't seal very well. Whenever I open the cap, I have juice all over the inner part of the topcap. Potentially, this could allow juice to travel down all the way from the top of the chimney to the bottom. However, when I stick a small cleaning q-tip into the chimney, it only collects juice when it's all the way down. So while the lack of sealing power in the topcap is not good, it doesn't have to be the main problem. It could also well be that the juice in the topcap is due to condensation. Right now, it's impossible for me to tell.

2) The bottom part of the coils is fitted very loosely in the coil base, sealed by an o-ring. Given how easy it is to twist and pull the lower part of the coil out, I'm not sure that this o-ring can really prevent potential leaking.

Or maybe, just maybe, the batches of coils (C1 and C1-S since I only want Kanthal) I bought were bad. Maybe. I don't know. I'm willing to consider that option, because the last C1S coil I inserted was an unmitigated disaster. With this coil, it leaks so much juice that I have to unscrew and clean the atomizer twice a day to prevent the juice from travelling to the 510 hole.

Troubleshooting a leaking bottom-airflow tank is a mind-numbing task. Given how well top-airflow tanks can be constructed, I seriously wonder why manufacturers don't just develop a good top-airflow system, then re-use it on all their atomizers. It would be so much less trouble for users.
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#4
I have suggested some tanks could be redesigned to do a TAF system, I like the idea because it does eliminate leakage out the bottom air inlets. I had suggested it for the Notchcore and the RiftCore atomizers, but I don't think it would work with the ProCore series tanks as it would require a complete redesign and a whole new coil.
As far as your leaking issues, I have several Procore tanks but not the ProCore X. I have Aries, Conquer, Air and Motor, none of them leak. Having heard your leaking issue what I would suggest is to be sure the coil is firmly tightened into the tank base. It should bottom out the threads and be firmly finger tightened into the tank base, as tight as you can finger tighten it. Then firmly tighten the glass and top cap onto the tank base, again the threads should completely tighten. By the sounds of what you describe your coil is not firmly tightened into the tank base so the bottom seals are not sealing and not creating a vacuum in the tank. When done properly after you vape you should see a few small bubbles rise out of the cotton into the juice, If you don't see that, air may be leaking elsewhere.
The only other thing I can think of is damaged seals but that shouldn't be happening on all your ProCore tanks.
I had a leaking issue like you describe on a Smok tank and it ended up being a tiny chip on the bottom of the tank glass.
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#5
(08-25-2018, 10:32 AM)CosmicTruth Wrote:  I have suggested some tanks could be redesigned to do a TAF system, I like the idea because it does eliminate leakage out the bottom air inlets. I had suggested it for the Notchcore and the RiftCore atomizers, but I don't think it would work with the ProCore series tanks as it would require a complete redesign and a whole new coil.

With a little ingenuity, it would probably take 3 updated parts to convert the Joyetech bottom-airflow tanks to top-airflow; an updated top cap with an airflow system, a additional chimney part running down into a new bottom part which then delivers air from below or the side to the coils. The existing coils could stay the way they are. Pretty much like what OBS and Geekvape/Digiflavor do. Geekvape even released a top-airflow conversion kit for their Griffin Atomizer, before they started making their popular Zeus series. And the top-airflow system in all the Engine models, both RTA and the sub-ohm, work like a charm. I`m sure Joyetech could easily come up with a good top-airflow system, if they wanted to. Maybe it's a bit harsh to say it, but I think that [bottom-airflow related leaking] shoudln't even be a topic anymore in 2018.

Quote:When done properly after you vape you should see a few small bubbles rise out of the cotton into the juice, If you don't see that, air may be leaking elsewhere.

The bubbles are there. And ofc I tighten all parts with a reasonable amount of force. I have concluded that it can't be a general sealing problem, since the leaking only happens after I vape; under "stress", so to speak. It doesn't happen when I let the tank stand overnight.

edit/update
Made the mistake of not cleaning it up yesterday before going to bed. Result today = an entire puddle of liquid under the atomizer. Also reached the 510 hole. I'm not going to let this thing kill my mods. I've found an Eleaf HW1 coil somewhere, will test if that thing leaks as well. At least its bottom parts sits firmly in its base and doesn't wobble. That'll be my last test before I retire the Procore series.

update2
I stress puffed 2 entire tanks full with the Eleaf HW1 coil, result: Bone dry. Not even the slightest residue under the atomizer -.- That's an interesting (and encouraging outcome).
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#6
There is something going on here.
Generally the common things that cause this type leaking issue is
  1. bad or broken sealing o-rings.
  2. chipped glass or glass imperfection at the sealing o-ring.
  3. in properly tightened coils or tank parts.

Because you described some play at the bottom of the coil I suspect the coil is not firmly attached to the tank bottom. I would be tempted to force an old coil all the way down or run a thread cleaner on the tank threads and the threads on the bottom of the coil. When properly assembled the coil will be firmly tight in the tank bottom with no play.

Quote:The bottom part of the coils is fitted very loosely in the coil base, sealed by an o-ring. Given how easy it is to twist and pull the lower part of the coil out

This is different than what I experience with these tanks. I might suggest using a tool to fully tighten the coil into the tank base.
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#7
After 2 more tanks, it's still as dry as a bone. What a positive feeling.

(08-26-2018, 08:20 AM)CosmicTruth Wrote:  There is something going on here.
Generally the common things that cause this type leaking issue is

  1. bad or broken sealing o-rings.
  2. chipped glass or glass imperfection at the sealing o-ring.
  3. in properly tightened coils or tank parts.
I have exchanged the upper and lower seals of the tank already, and the glass' edge feels, at least to the hand, like it it flawless. If the inside of the tank didn't hold its pressure, I would've expected it to lose some juice overnight. It didn't. However, I have ordered replacement glasses, so I will have a chance to test this even more.

Problem is: I'm running out of O-rings/seals. And they don't sell those seals on neither on Fasttech nor Aliex.

Maybe I was really unlucky and got a bad production batch of coils. Annoying, given that I buy many packs at once, but it is what it is... "varying production quality" is something you know when you had JT BF coils before 微笑

Quote:Because you described some play at the bottom of the coil I suspect the coil is not firmly attached to the tank bottom. I would be tempted to force an old coil all the way down or run a thread cleaner on the tank threads and the threads on the bottom of the coil. When properly assembled the coil will be firmly tight in the tank bottom with no play.
   
Here's what I meant..
The blue part, meaning the coils's outer thread and transparent silicone seal, are properly screwed into the bottom part of the atomizer. That's what seals the coil's inside from the juice in the tank. Had I failed to screw this in properly, the tank would leak on its own over time. But it doesn't. Or maybe it does, but so incredibly slowly that I wouldn't realise it, and the problem only gets accellerated when I puff, so it just looks like it only happens when I vape. Possible, but very unlikely, since it doesn't happen with the eleaf coil, so at least it's not the metal thread itself that is faulty. That's good to know.

The red part however, is pretty loose in the 3 JT coils I have tested so far. You can basically give it a light twist and pull it out (it's much tighter with the Eleaf coil). I expect that would be the reverse of how they are manufactured in the first place.
The problem ofc is that this looseness would open up a new crevice directly below the soaked cotton, instead of having just a single big hole right below the air chimney in the middle of the coil. This could explain the leaking. However, as soon as the coil is screwed into the bottom part, the middle metal bridge makes contact with the 510 contact pin below, and the asserted pressure probably presses the the red part firmly into the coil body again. That speaks against the hypothesis.

As I said, troubleshooting a leak is... annoying -.-
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#8
(08-26-2018, 01:14 PM)tailland Wrote:  Snip ...
As I said, troubleshooting a leak is... annoying -.-

Yes indeed. I once had a Sm*k tank .... that thing leaked like an African oil pipeline! Into the bin it went.

Sometimes a manufacturer gets all that complexity right and if their QC is good enough a coil tank can work for some years, I haven't had many problems with Joyetech screw in coil leaks but it's such a damn mess when it does happen. I also hate throwing metal parts away and getting covered in liquid when changing coils.

So I have now nearly moved completely to tanks with no screw coil, the Riftcore and Notchcore together with a couple of RDAs. So much less hassle and cheaper to maintain too.

It's no surprise to me that refillable pod/cartridge devices without separate coils are so popular, most people don't want the hassle and the mess.
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#9
I have had leakage from the Procore series ONLY when I am not vaping at a high enough wattage to heat the juice fast enough! have you all considered this??? Each coil has a recommended wattage and if you vape lower than that you will get leakage and spitback! Just something to consider!
微笑  smoke free since January 2014 ?微笑
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#10
(08-27-2018, 10:33 AM)Liz (glizz) Wrote:  I have had leakage from the Procore series ONLY when I am not vaping at a high enough wattage to heat the juice fast enough! have you all considered this??? Each coil has a recommended wattage and if you vape lower than that you will get leakage and spitback!   Just something to consider!
I stop firing half a second before I stop drawing, which usually takes care of the condensate. Infact I do vape the coils lower than recommended. At least most of the time. Right now, I'm hooked on the eleaf HW1 coil, whcih is rated 40-80W, and I'm vaping it at 30-35W, which gives me the desired cool vape. No leak, no spitback. Infact, a very pleasant vape.
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